When did Locke... Become Flocke?

[Indie]

Was he co-habiting Locke's body when Locke died? Has be been inside Locke's head since Locke came to the island?

Did Locke survive the crash at all? How many people have truly been saved against something truly impossible if you exclude locke?

How would he know his thoughts? Can smokey be inside several people at once? That is, a part of their conciousness?

[Reed]

Originally Posted by Indie

Was he co-habiting Locke's body when Locke died? Has be been inside Locke's head since Locke came to the island?

Did Locke survive the crash at all?

How would he know his thoughts? Can smokey be inside several people at once? That is, a part of their conciousness?

Esau may have gathered some information about Locke from when he tried to drag him down the hole in S1. I think the fact Esau needed Locke to die, means Locke did survive the crash in S1 - unless Jacob revived them all.

How many people have truly been saved against something truly impossible if you exclude locke?

What do you mean here Indie?

[KatesFate]

I agree with Reed. I don't think Esau took over Locke until Locke died and came to the island on the Ajira flight. I think he was more or less just sizing him up the first time Locke came to the island and then he realized what an easy target he would be for posession.

Quote:
How many people have truly been saved against something truly impossible if you exclude locke?

Do you mean the way Locke was saved from dying after the fall and were any others saved in the same way? I don't think that the others were "saved" in the same way Locke was, but I do believe that they were saved somehow in ways that we have yet to see.

[charlierocks]

I assumed, probably wrongly, that he took over Locke's body when Ben strangled him, which is why he told Ben was his last thoughts were, to let us know he was there.

[Mrs Sawyer]

I assumed the same as you Charlierocks, i thought his body was taken over when he died.

So does this mean that anyone can be taken over whether dead or alive, or, just when someone dies, their body can be taken over, because Sayid was dead and seems to have just come back to life again!!

[Be my Constant]

This is one of the questions that has intrigued me most. When Locke first looked into smokey and said it was beautiful, it may have been here when Esau decided that Locke would be the one. Following this Locke seemed to 'know' the island, even giving Sayid his compass saying he didn't need it anymore so maybe smokey 'gave' a part of himself to Locke then.

When Smokey dragged Locke into the hole Locke was begging Jack to let him go. Is it possible that Jacob could also use a form of smokey and that who Locke saw first?

I think Smokey took over Locke completly when Ben killed him, but had laid the seeds when Locke was alive to be able to do this.

Flocke said to Jacob 'you have no idea what I have been through to get here' which I took as more than just taking over Locke's body. Maybe Esau had to keep changing his plans in accordance to the development on the island, for example manipulating the manipulator (Ben) to get to Locke.

I really hope we learn just how this happened from S1 to now to find out just how all this happened.

[freckles08]

I get a little confused by this because Smokey has not actually taken over Locke's body because Locke's body is still with Alana and Co isn't it. I don't want to use the phrase "Shape Shifter" but maybe he is one and doesn't have to use a bodies he can form into anything he wants because there have been times when i believe smokey had appeared as other people/things like Kates black Horse and Ekos brother.

Also i don't think that Smokey can be more than two places at once because when Ben fell down in the bit before the temple, Flocke "Went to get something to help Ben up" and then just disapeared. It was obviously so he could go and be smokey then appear as Alex in order to get Ben to promise to do everything "Locke" said then all of a sudden he just reappears again.

I don't think i have made too much sense lol or Probably stated the obvious.

[Reed]

Originally Posted by freckles08

I get a little confused by this because Smokey has not actually taken over Locke's body because Locke's body is still with Alana and Co isn't it. I don't want to use the phrase "Shape Shifter" but maybe he is one and doesn't have to use a bodies he can form into anything he wants because there have been times when i believe smokey had appeared as other people/things like Kates black Horse and Ekos brother.

I think there are differences between the manifestations we are used to, and Esau using Locke's body - just like Christian's body not being in the Coffin. There seem to be different events taking place in regard to the bodies.

I find it interesting that if the Horse was the Monster, that the Horse had NOT actually been on the Island. So Esau can be whomever he wants so long as they are dead, which means the possibilities are endless. So could he manifest as Jesus if he wanted to? I wonder if he is able to, whether he could have achieved his loophole much quicker.

Also i don't think that Smokey can be more than two places at once because when Ben fell down in the bit before the temple, Flocke "Went to get something to help Ben up" and then just disapeared. It was obviously so he could go and be smokey then appear as Alex in order to get Ben to promise to do everything "Locke" said then all of a sudden he just reappears again.

It seems odd that such a powerful entity has limitations.

Originally Posted by Be my Constant

This is one of the questions that has intrigued me most. When Locke first looked into smokey and said it was beautiful, it may have been here when Esau decided that Locke would be the one. Following this Locke seemed to 'know' the island, even giving Sayid his compass saying he didn't need it anymore so maybe smokey 'gave' a part of himself to Locke then.

I ike that you believe it was Esau because everyone has assumed it was Jacob - but it could have been Esau in a good mood. Whereas when Locke saw the Monster next, Esau was angry.

When Smokey dragged Locke into the hole Locke was begging Jack to let him go. Is it possible that Jacob could also use a form of smokey and that who Locke saw first?

I would hazard a guess and say the Monster has no relation to Jacob.

I think Smokey took over Locke completly when Ben killed him, but had laid the seeds when Locke was alive to be able to do this.

I think it happened the moment he returned, otherwise Esau would may not have been able to play dead.

Flocke said to Jacob 'you have no idea what I have been through to get here' which I took as more than just taking over Locke's body. Maybe Esau had to keep changing his plans in accordance to the development on the island, for example manipulating the manipulator (Ben) to get to Locke.

I took it that he meant his ENTIRE plan - which took an unbelievable amount of work to achieve.

I really hope we learn just how this happened from S1 to now to find out just how all this happened.

I think we have witnessed it already, it is just a matter of trying to pintpoint important moments and making sense of sequences of events. But I do agree, a little more insight into it would be great.

[Reed]

Originally Posted by charlierocks

I assumed, probably wrongly, that he took over Locke's body when Ben strangled him, which is why he told Ben was his last thoughts were, to let us know he was there.

Esau also told Ben in S5 about events from the Hatch, so I think Esau gained ALL of Locke's knowledge and memories from his entire life.

[Him]

I imagine the Smoke Monster has Miles' ability, except perhaps with a higher degree of control... It would explain why he could know Locke's last thoughts, just as Miles' knew Juliet's.

We already knew the Monster could apparently extract memories. Doesn't seem a stretch that he could do it to dead people too.

I think The Monster can impersonate at least any living or ex-living entity. Maybe even impersonate anything (I've always been sort of suspicious the tree with the face in S1 was the time "we saw the monster but didn't know"). As I've said many times before, I don't think Boone's hallucination was a hallucination at all, it was just the Smoke Monster impersonating Shannon and doing Locke a favour.

Basically I think the only reason he didn't impersonate Locke beforehand was for the reason that he didn't want two Lockes kicking about.

[The Wizard]

Originally Posted by Him

(I've always been sort of suspicious the tree with the face in S1 was the time "we saw the monster but didn't know").

Tree with the face? :|

[Reed]

Originally Posted by Him

I imagine the Smoke Monster has Miles' ability, except perhaps with a higher degree of control... It would explain why he could know Locke's last thoughts, just as Miles' knew Juliet's.We already knew the Monster could apparently extract memories. Doesn't seem a stretch that he could do it to dead people too.

Good point Him. I had just assumed he gained Locke's memory.

I think The Monster can impersonate at least any living or ex-living entity.

I mentioned in another thread the possibility of Esau manifesting as Jesus, because I feel if he could, this would have provided a way to achieve his loophole. For example, Jesus walks up to Ben and tells him Jacob must die because Jacob is actually bad.

Maybe even impersonate anything (I've always been sort of suspicious the tree with the face in S1 was the time "we saw the monster but didn't know"). As I've said many times before, I don't think Boone's hallucination was a hallucination at all, it was just the Smoke Monster impersonating Shannon and doing Locke a favour.

This is a really interesting point, I wonder if the Monster can be an object? You have lost me also on the tree comment Him. Did this tree have a very visible face?

Basically I think the only reason he didn't impersonate Locke beforehand was for the reason that he didn't want two Lockes kicking about.

I think Esau was not able to kill Locke for whatever reason, and he needed Locke to die via someone else's hands. Otherwise, one would presume Esau could have killed Locke as the Monster - once Locke had attained Leadership position of the Others - and then manifested as Locke.

But there must have been a Rule in place as to why Esau could not manifest as Locke without him dying first, and a Rule preventing Esau from personally killing Locke.